'Illegal Downloads' 'Unlawful downloads'.
Please stop adding to the mis-information surrounding downloading music. It is not a crime to download a copy of an original work. The crime is MAKING a copy of an original work.
Downloading a copy of an album someone has ripped to their computer is not illegal.
Kthanxbai.
...Aren't Bothered' By 'illegal Downloads'?!?!?!
by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:50 am
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doyouthinkhesawus - Posts: 1580
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by chockablock on Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:28 pm
erm
altho the crimes are very different, paedos can be prosecuted for making a copy of a picture by downloading it to their computer.
it is illegal to download a copy of an original work (with the caveat that you are downloading it from someone else)
altho the crimes are very different, paedos can be prosecuted for making a copy of a picture by downloading it to their computer.
it is illegal to download a copy of an original work (with the caveat that you are downloading it from someone else)
"i had finally realised every rockstars dream, hating being famous"
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chockablock - Posts: 4350
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:02 pm
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, San Serif, Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by chockablock</i>
<br />erm
altho the crimes are very different, paedos can be prosecuted for making a copy of a picture by downloading it to their computer.
it is illegal to download a copy of an original work (with the caveat that you are downloading it from someone else)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yeah but it isn't a crime to download a copy of a copy- which is what the music is once it has been ripped to a computer.
Making the paedo connection is totally spurious. The crimes ARE very different. Paedos aren't getting done for copyright reasons.
<br />erm
altho the crimes are very different, paedos can be prosecuted for making a copy of a picture by downloading it to their computer.
it is illegal to download a copy of an original work (with the caveat that you are downloading it from someone else)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yeah but it isn't a crime to download a copy of a copy- which is what the music is once it has been ripped to a computer.
Making the paedo connection is totally spurious. The crimes ARE very different. Paedos aren't getting done for copyright reasons.
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doyouthinkhesawus - Posts: 1580
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by chockablock on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:07 pm
it is a crime to make a copy of a copy
(the paedo thing was purely to show how the 'making a copy' bit applies here, but if you dont even believe that bits illegal then there was no point)
for the record, i download music (and not raped kids) with a fury
(the paedo thing was purely to show how the 'making a copy' bit applies here, but if you dont even believe that bits illegal then there was no point)
for the record, i download music (and not raped kids) with a fury
"i had finally realised every rockstars dream, hating being famous"
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chockablock - Posts: 4350
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:14 pm
The latest bollocks quoted from that new piracy article on the left:
"An estimated six million people download files illegally in the UK each year, costing the music and film industries billions of pounds."
How does it cost them billions of pounds? They assuming that I would have bought fucking Girls Aloud had I not had access to it for free.
If it's free, you fill your boots... if it's something I don't really want and I have to pay for it... nah, I'll leave it thanks.
Do they think we all have billions in extra cash sitting around in our bank accounts? Or do we end up putting it into some other area of the economy??
It's fucking ridiculous. Say I download the latest Foo Fighters album or whatever (for the sake of argument) and say: "I like like this, I'm going to see them."
Me and my three mates end up dropping £120 on four tickets for the MEN... me and hundreds of thousands of other fuckers, year in, year out, going to watch these bands live.
You can fuck off, you're not having any more money from me. I'm not spending £1,000s to listen to the music I like, most of which is old and the people who created it are dead. I wont continue to keep music industry knobheads in cocaine.
Technology has superseded an archaic business practice and these bastards are pulling every trick they can to cling onto their dollars.
"An estimated six million people download files illegally in the UK each year, costing the music and film industries billions of pounds."
How does it cost them billions of pounds? They assuming that I would have bought fucking Girls Aloud had I not had access to it for free.
If it's free, you fill your boots... if it's something I don't really want and I have to pay for it... nah, I'll leave it thanks.
Do they think we all have billions in extra cash sitting around in our bank accounts? Or do we end up putting it into some other area of the economy??
It's fucking ridiculous. Say I download the latest Foo Fighters album or whatever (for the sake of argument) and say: "I like like this, I'm going to see them."
Me and my three mates end up dropping £120 on four tickets for the MEN... me and hundreds of thousands of other fuckers, year in, year out, going to watch these bands live.
You can fuck off, you're not having any more money from me. I'm not spending £1,000s to listen to the music I like, most of which is old and the people who created it are dead. I wont continue to keep music industry knobheads in cocaine.
Technology has superseded an archaic business practice and these bastards are pulling every trick they can to cling onto their dollars.
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:18 pm
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, San Serif, Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by chockablock</i>
<br /><b>it is a crime to make a copy of a copy</b>
(the paedo thing was purely to show how the 'making a copy' bit applies here, but if you dont even believe that bits illegal then there was no point)
for the record, i download music (and not raped kids) with a fury
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No it isn't. Believe me, I've read up enough on this. No-one has ever been convicted in this country of downloading copyright material.
I know what you were trying to illustrate with the 'paedo' example, but in this case, it's not the original peado going "Whoooooooah, some bastard's making copies of me photos, I want them prosecuted!", it's the fact that their content is illegal, no matter what form it's in.
<br /><b>it is a crime to make a copy of a copy</b>
(the paedo thing was purely to show how the 'making a copy' bit applies here, but if you dont even believe that bits illegal then there was no point)
for the record, i download music (and not raped kids) with a fury
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No it isn't. Believe me, I've read up enough on this. No-one has ever been convicted in this country of downloading copyright material.
I know what you were trying to illustrate with the 'paedo' example, but in this case, it's not the original peado going "Whoooooooah, some bastard's making copies of me photos, I want them prosecuted!", it's the fact that their content is illegal, no matter what form it's in.
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doyouthinkhesawus - Posts: 1580
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by chockablock on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:41 pm
> No-one has ever been convicted in this country of downloading copyright material.
doesn;t make it legal
a quick google suggests:
>>>>
The BPI points out that illegal file-sharing is outlawed under the The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act of 1988.
The legislation contains two key provisions, as recently amended by the UK's implementation of the EU Copyright Directive:
Section 16, which reserves to the owner exclusive rights to copy and to
communicate their works to the public; and
Section 20, which says communication to the public includes "the making available to the public of the work by electronic transmission in such a way that members of the public may access it from a place and at a time individually chosen by them."
>>>>
now obv the BPI is representing certain interests, but i'd be keen to see where you have evidence of 'downloading without rights owners permission's legality
(and again, cos its important to me, i'm not criticising people that do fileshare)
doesn;t make it legal
a quick google suggests:
>>>>
The BPI points out that illegal file-sharing is outlawed under the The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act of 1988.
The legislation contains two key provisions, as recently amended by the UK's implementation of the EU Copyright Directive:
Section 16, which reserves to the owner exclusive rights to copy and to
communicate their works to the public; and
Section 20, which says communication to the public includes "the making available to the public of the work by electronic transmission in such a way that members of the public may access it from a place and at a time individually chosen by them."
>>>>
now obv the BPI is representing certain interests, but i'd be keen to see where you have evidence of 'downloading without rights owners permission's legality
(and again, cos its important to me, i'm not criticising people that do fileshare)
"i had finally realised every rockstars dream, hating being famous"
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chockablock - Posts: 4350
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:47 pm
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/12 ... /comments/
Original Works
By Alexander Hanff
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 16:15 GMT
Another point many people seem to fail to realise is that in the UK copyright law only covers copying of "original works". Therefore a copy of a copy under British Law is not illegal as it is not a copy of an original works. Of course it takes someone with balls to use this defence in court and of course requires that someone actually gets taken court for infringement so they can submit a defence.
As soon as someone rips a cd or dvd the resulting files are no longer original works and therefore dissemination/distribution of copies of this copy are not illegal and are certainly not covered by copyright legislation.
In reality, the only person liable for infringement is the person who originally ripped the content which to my understanding would be pretty much impossible to determine.
Illegality
By RW
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 18:49 GMT
The record industry is quick to scream "that's illegal" but whether an act is illegal or not is something only a trial in front of a judge, and possibly a jury, can determine.
Allegations are meaningless until proved in a court of law.
As for honeypot torrents, so the torrent says it's Britney's latest—but is it? Again, proof that the actual torrent is Britney's latest is required.
Calling something illegal doesn't make it illegal. And as another comment reminded us, calling copyright infringement "stealing" doesn't make it theft.
@JonB
By Mark
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 19:22 GMT
Well, since copyright is a civil matter, and civil case is for redress, NOT punishment (at least in the UK), if the lost sale was never going to happen, there's no loss and therefore no redress.
Re: Is downloading copyright stuff illegal in the UK?
By Peter Fairbrother
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 21:25 GMT
No, it is not illegal to download copyright material for your own use without the permission of the rights holder - but it is unlawful.
It is making another copy without authorisation from the copyright owner, which is an infringement of copyright. This is a civil tort (wrong) - but it is not a criminal offense. It is not theft, legally speaking. The police can't arrest you for it, you can't be convicted for it, but the copyright owners can sue you.
Supplying copyright material is sometimes an offense, it depends on the circumstances. Generally speaking, if you do it for money you can be busted.
Incidentally, ripping a CD for your own use is probably technically an infringement too, but you are unlikely to be successfully sued for it.
Original Works
By Alexander Hanff
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 16:15 GMT
Another point many people seem to fail to realise is that in the UK copyright law only covers copying of "original works". Therefore a copy of a copy under British Law is not illegal as it is not a copy of an original works. Of course it takes someone with balls to use this defence in court and of course requires that someone actually gets taken court for infringement so they can submit a defence.
As soon as someone rips a cd or dvd the resulting files are no longer original works and therefore dissemination/distribution of copies of this copy are not illegal and are certainly not covered by copyright legislation.
In reality, the only person liable for infringement is the person who originally ripped the content which to my understanding would be pretty much impossible to determine.
Illegality
By RW
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 18:49 GMT
The record industry is quick to scream "that's illegal" but whether an act is illegal or not is something only a trial in front of a judge, and possibly a jury, can determine.
Allegations are meaningless until proved in a court of law.
As for honeypot torrents, so the torrent says it's Britney's latest—but is it? Again, proof that the actual torrent is Britney's latest is required.
Calling something illegal doesn't make it illegal. And as another comment reminded us, calling copyright infringement "stealing" doesn't make it theft.
@JonB
By Mark
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 19:22 GMT
Well, since copyright is a civil matter, and civil case is for redress, NOT punishment (at least in the UK), if the lost sale was never going to happen, there's no loss and therefore no redress.
Re: Is downloading copyright stuff illegal in the UK?
By Peter Fairbrother
Posted Tuesday 12th February 2008 21:25 GMT
No, it is not illegal to download copyright material for your own use without the permission of the rights holder - but it is unlawful.
It is making another copy without authorisation from the copyright owner, which is an infringement of copyright. This is a civil tort (wrong) - but it is not a criminal offense. It is not theft, legally speaking. The police can't arrest you for it, you can't be convicted for it, but the copyright owners can sue you.
Supplying copyright material is sometimes an offense, it depends on the circumstances. Generally speaking, if you do it for money you can be busted.
Incidentally, ripping a CD for your own use is probably technically an infringement too, but you are unlikely to be successfully sued for it.
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:52 pm
Check this too, Chocka:
http://torrentfreak.com/illegal-downloa ... an-080212/
I don't mean to be combative, mate... this issue is just getting up my nose at the mo.
http://torrentfreak.com/illegal-downloa ... an-080212/
I don't mean to be combative, mate... this issue is just getting up my nose at the mo.
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by kearnsy on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:52 pm
phew, all this legal mumbo jumbo is making me thirsty, think i'll order a tab
*pushes tab key on keyboard repeatedly*
*pushes tab key on keyboard repeatedly*
There will Peace only after the Last Priest is strangled with the entrails of the Last Politician
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by Medalion Man on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:56 pm
i like them adverts at the start of dvds
"you wouldnt kill your own nan"
"you wouldnt set fire to a pregnant woman"
"you wouldnt gun down a toddler"
"so dont watch pirate dvds cause your doing exactly the same thing"
they have well boss music on dem
"you wouldnt kill your own nan"
"you wouldnt set fire to a pregnant woman"
"you wouldnt gun down a toddler"
"so dont watch pirate dvds cause your doing exactly the same thing"
they have well boss music on dem
- Medalion Man
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:59 pm
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, San Serif, Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Medalion Man</i>
<br />i like them adverts at the start of dvds
"you wouldnt kill your own nan"
"you wouldnt set fire to a pregnant woman"
"you wouldnt gun down a toddler"
"so dont watch pirate dvds cause your doing exactly the same thing"
they have well boss music on dem
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Although the irony is that if you were watching a pirate DVD, these adverts will have been cut out or not there at all.
<br />i like them adverts at the start of dvds
"you wouldnt kill your own nan"
"you wouldnt set fire to a pregnant woman"
"you wouldnt gun down a toddler"
"so dont watch pirate dvds cause your doing exactly the same thing"
they have well boss music on dem
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Although the irony is that if you were watching a pirate DVD, these adverts will have been cut out or not there at all.
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doyouthinkhesawus - Posts: 1580
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by chockablock on Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:00 pm
i don't think you're being combative! just interested to see where you're coming from
msuic copyright is hard enough to get my head round anyway, now i've got to acknowledge the difference between illegal and unlawful!
msuic copyright is hard enough to get my head round anyway, now i've got to acknowledge the difference between illegal and unlawful!
"i had finally realised every rockstars dream, hating being famous"
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chockablock - Posts: 4350
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by Medalion Man on Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:01 pm
>Although the irony is that if you were watching a pirate DVD, these adverts will have been cut out or not there at all.
i always think that its laying a guilt trip on me calling me a bastard because im not against and i havnt evev done anything
i always think that its laying a guilt trip on me calling me a bastard because im not against and i havnt evev done anything
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by doyouthinkhesawus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:11 pm
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, San Serif, Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by chockablock</i>
<br />i don't think you're being combative! just interested to see where you're coming from
msuic copyright is hard enough to get my head round anyway, now i've got to acknowledge the difference between illegal and unlawful!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
While I suppose it's to be imagined in the same context as libel or slander. You can't be arrested for it, but it doesn't mean you're not on dodgy ground.
<br />i don't think you're being combative! just interested to see where you're coming from
msuic copyright is hard enough to get my head round anyway, now i've got to acknowledge the difference between illegal and unlawful!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
While I suppose it's to be imagined in the same context as libel or slander. You can't be arrested for it, but it doesn't mean you're not on dodgy ground.
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