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Off With The Joy Division Oven Gloves, No More Dull Musical Influences!

Reed and Destroy: Hitting out at the arse cracks of the music world...

  • by Paul Reed
  • Thursday, April 23, 2009
  • filed in: Indie
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First and foremost, lets get my feelings on ‘Primary Colours’ by The Horrors out of the way. I’m actually going to join the chorus of positive critical noise and say that it is a truly great record, an exciting and unexpected leap forward for a band sculpting esoteric influences into some glorious, spine tingling pop.

So why is it frequently being described as ‘The third Joy Division’ album? Why would this be a good thing? Aren’t we fed up yet with the shadow cast over popular music from two mediocre albums and the tragically romanticised suicide of a young man?

In most musical circles, critiquing Joy Division is akin to walking into a house party loudly cracking jokes about Josef Fritzl before proceeding to take a massive steaming dump in the corner: You just don’t do it. This awed revisionism seemingly started with Interpol (who actually resemble The Chameleons much more than anyone else) but when will the unhealthy obsession end?

The ethos and mystique of the band have always appealed but the actual tunes? They have about five decent timeless songs if that. They are a black and white analogue band in a Technicolor digital age, monochrome and dreary, the perpetual student Peter Pan band whose followers need never grow up.

While we’re on the subject- Why do bands like The Cars get constantly discarded from the new wave Talking Heads / Blondie/ Television axis of cool?

Their derided status has nothing to do with how good the songs are, the first album is a breathtaking pop classic but they have been unfairly evacuated from hip influence territory. Its like new bands indulging us in their fan worship of The Smiths all day long but they won’t dare mention Prefab Sprout or The Slits taking all of the feminist punk kudos, leaving The Raincoats out in the cold save for the consolation prize of a passing mention in Kurt Cobain's journals.
These reference points for songwriting and aesthetics have become dull and the end result is White Lies or whoever else will follow them with a generic baritone and vague sense of dread, straight to a number one album.

Where are the new bands inspired by Mudhoney? Or Husker Du or Teenage Fanclub?

The solution? Well, I’m no cultural fascist but how about we start with a legal ban on all new bands from owning any records by Joy Division, Echo and the Bunnymen or The Cure? As much as we may love epic doomed romance, we are in dire need of a change. And someone needs to step up and form that band who have perfect pop songs and an authentic sense of ‘Otherness’ about them, landing somewhere between The Lemonheads, The Replacements and Sonic Youth so that I can stop fantasising about how refreshingly ace they would sound!
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  • finished wanking yourself off yet with a dictionary of band names?

    ~ by curtis 4/23/2009

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  • Ah, an insightful riposte from 'Curtis'. This topic needed reference points and examples, did it not?And we are on a MUSIC site which may possibly include discussion of bands, influences etc..so don't be too shocked by my controversial and outrageous discussion of bands! I would love to hear a band take in some different influences is all, it would be pointless stating that without then throwing some names out there, the article wouldn't have the courage of its convictions...

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • While we're on the topic, how would one actually go about wanking themselves off with a dictionary of band names? The mind boggles but I would envisage it to be quite painful considering the sheer quantity of band names out there, that would be a heavy volume indeed.My next article isn't going to mention any bands at all or refer even vaguely to music but it may address the growing phenomenon of dictionary porn!I'm off to find a copy of War and Peace now!

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • yeh you twat

    ~ by woody 4/24/2009

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  • Wait there- Who is a twat? Me or Curtis? Or both?I'm confused. Typing this whilst ordering every single back copy of the Encyclopedia Britannica, has to be worth a try!I'm also going to do a Mark Chapman on the next band to sound even remotely like Joy Division.

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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    • And I'll do a Jack Ruby on the next Lee Harvey Oswald/Mark Chapman. Joy Division are one of many influences you can have, it's not just the influences, it's the impact they had on a place and an artform. I have been through my joy Division phase years ago and it has passed, but I remember the songs well. And 24 hours is the most intense song I've ever heard.

      ~ by Andy Day 5/5/2009

    • I didn't post that. :(

      ~ by Andy 5/5/2009

  • *Yawn* I know blogs should be opinionated, but this weekly column intentionally swimming against the tide of popular opinion in an attempt to provoke response is tedious. Next week - "Is it me or were the Beatles just an over-rated bag of bums?" Snooze.

    ~ by Reed & Annoy 4/24/2009

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  • Nah, I Love The Beatles so that will never happen. This is all a bit of fun but to be fair it comes from genuine, burning, subjective and valid opinion.I don't just sit here thinking about which cat to put amongst the pigeons for the sake of it, I feel compelled to write about these topics. Back to the issue at hand- Are you not just a tiny bit sick of bands that sound like this?

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • Nah, I Love The Beatles so that will never happen. This is all a bit of fun but to be fair it comes from genuine, burning, subjective and valid opinion.I don't just sit here thinking about which cat to put amongst the pigeons for the sake of it, I feel compelled to write about these topics. Back to the issue at hand- Are you not just a tiny bit sick of bands that sound like this?

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • Oh, and 'Reed and Annoy' is a good one, I like it!

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • On the whole, but it's not the fact that a band "sounds like so and so..." that I dislike, after all everyone has their influences - it's the general lack of ambition and arguable lull in musical creativity within the indie-rock genre that disappoints. It just so happens that Joy Division are the name-checking band of the moment, a group who genuinely brought something new to the table. It's a shame that, instead of taking inspiration, many bands set out to emulate.

    ~ by Reed and Discuss 4/24/2009

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  • Much as I'm bored by bands endlessly re-running 1981, there's a reason The Cars and Prefab Sprout are not considered good - they were boring, twee rubbish. If you have your way the next thing will be twaddle like The Eton Crop and The Shop Assistants reforming. We already had a generation of bands influenced by Mudhoney & Husker Du - it was given the moniker 'grunge', and the arse-end of that is still with us.

    ~ by funks 4/24/2009

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  • Reed and Discuss? Even better. What about Prefab Sprout's 'Steve McQueen'? Or The Cars first album?Unquestionable timeless pop genius!I'm talking about great songs by the way, not underachieving Indie elitist bollocks.Fair point about grunge I suppose but not many great bands came out of that in the end, such influences were ultimately channeled in entirely the wrong way. Who has put out any tracks recently with the sheer ferocity of 'Superfuzz Bigmuff?

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • Reed and Discuss? Even better. What about Prefab Sprout's 'Steve McQueen'? Or The Cars first album?Unquestionable timeless pop genius!I'm talking about great songs by the way, not underachieving Indie elitist bollocks.Fair point about grunge I suppose but not many great bands came out of that in the end, such influences were ultimately channeled in entirely the wrong way. Who has put out any tracks recently with the sheer ferocity of 'Superfuzz Bigmuff?

    ~ by REED 4/24/2009

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  • Second comment wasn't mine I'm afraid, the cars have some good tunes, but prefab sprouts back catalogue is a little more sparse in my opinon.

    ~ by Reed and Dismiss 4/24/2009

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  • I enjoyed the article Paul. Joy Division are overrated in my opinion, but as they often say, an artist's greatest trick is to die. Or words to that effect. I still like them, mind, but they're a 'sound' band, rather than a 'song band'. They have a unique sound that many have copied, and in my opinion, used to better effect. Prefab Sprout and Cars have written some great tunes (Polly is a particular favourite), but they don't really have a unique sound that can

    ~ by Gareth 4/26/2009

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  • can be referenced, so they tend to get overlooked. Give me the Chameleons or Icicle Works over this lot anyway.

    ~ by Gareth 4/26/2009

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  • isnt it more lazy journalism than actual influence... shit what do they sound like... Joy Division that'll do... no just used that one, lets go with the Cure... maybe music journos should be banned from using Joy Division etc. as reference points as opposed to new bands owning their records

    ~ by Reed Jobs Careers Employment & Recruitment 4/27/2009

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  • I guess. But of that sound of music, the cure and joy division are the two best-known bands, so it's an easy comparison for the average reader as well as the author.

    ~ by Gareth 4/27/2009

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  • This has become far too civilized. Where is the bile? Seriously though, it hopefully opens up some interesting questions- Why do certain bands have a pervasive cultural influence despite not having that many tunes?Easier to buy wholesale into a myth I suppose, we often love stories more than brilliant tunes- See the critical rimming bestowed on Bon Iver last year for example. And yes, I'll take The Chameleons, or indeed Interpol over JD anyday!I'm glad that someone enjoyed the article.

    ~ by REED 4/28/2009

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  • Interpol over Joy division? Oh dear.

    ~ by Reed and Disgusted 4/29/2009

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  • Indeed...But instead of harking on about Joy Division for a 1000 words, why not just say no more derivative music?

    ~ by Clearly a Sun reader 4/29/2009

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  • The article is actually less than 500 words and such an argument requires illustrative examples, JD are a very heavily referenced band whom I believe to be overrated so there we go. Interpol are by no means a favourite of mine but I do honestly think that they have more atmosphere and tunes to offer than JD. As do other 'Baritone Brigade' bands such as The National, there is just more going on, more ideas, more excitement. JD are ultimately one dimensional. No more White Lies!

    ~ by REED 4/30/2009

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  • Oh, and I'll take New Order any day as well. What they became was something so much better, progressive and soulful. True Faith.

    ~ by REED 4/30/2009

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  • Maybe if someone in the press would call out the rip-off bands, they'd stop ripping off better bands from 30 years ago and you'd stop having this argument. White Lies' debut EP art? see New Order's Movement. White Lies' sound? See late 70s early 80s ground-breaking bands (Chameleons for one). White Lies' pic in the tube? See Joy Division 30 years ago. I can't believe the lot of ya let them get away with it.

    ~ by Apop Post Punk 5/1/2009

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  • To be honest, I was not that bothered by your article, but you could have articulated your argument better by writing about other bands that have been continually raped by artists, rather than just targeting JD. And come on, Cars was not that great. I feel sorry for you, I’d rather spend my time searching Spotify for tracks buy Captain Beefheart or Sonic Youth than average eighties indie bands...each to their own I guess!!!

    ~ by Clearly a Sun reader 5/3/2009

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  • Also, it would be nice to know how many seminal albums you wrote when you was 19...I suppose this is your seminal article? (Although I’m sure it took at least three years of uni to get this far.)

    ~ by Clearly a Sun reader 5/3/2009

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  • JD were part of the article because so many bands emulate that sound and because I feel strongly about it. Simple as. The article mentions Sonic Youth!!!Come on- lets have a decent counter argument from one of you lot!I don't understand your second comment. Erm, I wrote no seminal albums at 19 and this is more like my Spiral Scratch EP article if you like...Just getting started. I'm simply pleased that you read and reacted to the article.

    ~ by REED 5/5/2009

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    • Jeez... i like the fact that so many peoples have taken this article on in loads of ways, dont agree with you personally, but what i dont like is you feeling the need to defend your pov against any and almost every comment that doesnt share your opinion... stop replying to commenst!

      ~ by zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 5/5/2009

  • I'm enjoying the debate about music! Isn't that whats its all about???I think that its ace that we have such a wide variety of conflicting opinions going on here.I'm replying to clarify in some places or just simply to discuss further with people, it isn't to be defensive or assert that my opinion is right, I'm interested in what others have to say about this.

    ~ by REED (and Disappear) 5/5/2009

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  • Where's the press, mate? You seem to be the only one calling the robbers out. She Borrows Revenge was a rapper, White Lies were 'indie', and the bloke for the Killers was in a ska band for crying out loud. At some point they realized "we can't write anything remotely good or original, let's rip some folks off". The press laps it up.

    ~ by Apop Post Punk 5/5/2009

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